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  1. #21
    Despatch Rider
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    Here is one rule that should be stated.

    Never give anything by mouth to an unconscious patient.

    Common sense but you never know.

    Tom
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  2. #22
    Pizza Delivery
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    Very true. Invariably people getting shocky get VERY thirsty. Never give anything by mouth.

    Thanks

    37
    It takes 40 muscles to frown and 4 to pull the trigger on a decent sniper rifle.

    GOD I WANT MY BIKE BACK

  3. #23
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    Question

    i would have thought the heart was the no1 priority....

    how can a guy start breathing if his heart aint working?

  4. #24
    Street Cruiser lonerider's Avatar
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    I,v asked jd to post a Oz NSW idea from paramedics about ICE on your phone. See it soon!
    Go to your room and have a really good think about what you've just done!

  5. #25
    Dirt Racer jdonly1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lonerider
    I,v asked jd to post a Oz NSW idea from paramedics about ICE on your phone. See it soon!
    im having trouble with it mate i dont no if its the drugs im on but i carnt get it to upload
    I just wish my lawn was emo, so it would cut itself

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by IceT
    Question

    i would have thought the heart was the no1 priority....

    how can a guy start breathing if his heart aint working?
    Airway is #1. Won't do the brain any good for the heart to pump blood without any oxygen in it. And if he ain't breathing, the heart won't be pumping for long.

    Everyone should have a basic working knowledge of CPR. I urge you to find a class and enroll.

  7. #27
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    ICE- I n C ase of E mergency
    There has been a recent push to have people add a contact in their cell phone under the contact name ICE. You would have a contact number and name of someone who knows something about you and your medical history.

    There is also an idea for the home along the same lines where you put a little packet in your freezer.

    Not a bad deal if the responders remember to look in the phone, one of the problems that I have run into, is if the patient is in a wreck bad enough to lose conciousness, I have found that hteir cell phone is pretty wacked as well. IT is a good idea though.

    The question about the heart beating was answered fine. The way I presented the ABC's to you is based on MY expirience as well as the way I treat arrests. There is a new American Heart Association protocol that states that for the rescuer just doing compressions is adaquate and that artificial respirations are no longer necessary. Air contains approximatly 21% Oxygen and our body uses 5% thus we are expelling 16% oxygen with every breath. So hypotheticallly we should be able to breath 3 times slower........ blah blah blah.

    The reason that I presented the ABC's the way I did, is that the majority of the people that I have come in contact with on this site are of above average intelligence. I presented this in a way that would be most effective in my opinion. It IS however reasonable to do just the compressions and the residual vaccum from the release WILL allow a small exchange of air.

    NOW what most people don't know is that it is really NOT about the inhalation Oxygen, but more about the exhalation Carbon Dioxide. So if you blow off a normal amount of carbon dioxide for the traumatic arrest patient by doing manual ventilations, you are giving them a better chance of survival than just doing compressions alone.

    I hope that made sense.

    37
    It takes 40 muscles to frown and 4 to pull the trigger on a decent sniper rifle.

    GOD I WANT MY BIKE BACK

  8. #28
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    Now I have a question. In my experience, the real zealots get some serious compressions (and a flail chest) but the inexperienced have a hard time getting adequate compressions. My question is do you think significant gas exchange occurs with "average" chest compressions or are you only moving the so called dead space, (air in the trachea and main stem bronchus). Clearly not my area of expertise, so i would welcome your opinion.
    Motorcycles are like shoes. You wouldn't wear boots to church. You can't get by with just one motorcycle.

  9. #29
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    DocTurbo-

    I am of the opnion that you DON'T get adaquate gas exchange with just compressions. I think the AHA is loopy for changing the protocol. Perhaps they were finding that more people were being exposed to life altering bloodborne pathogens then were being saved. Perhaps do to the grossness factor they were finding that people who thought that they had to do mouth to mouth were less likely to start CPR as opposed to thinking that they could just do compressions.
    In my mind there is NO doubt that gas exchange is going to improve with adaquate tidal volume

    I also find that when doing properly placed chest compressions on let's say your clientele, any adaquate compression, one that will give you a palpable indication at a central pulse point, is going to inflict major thorasic damage.
    Inversely I am trying to think of a time that I have done the same quality compressions on a person below 50 and gotten anythng worse then some minor crepitus.

    37
    It takes 40 muscles to frown and 4 to pull the trigger on a decent sniper rifle.

    GOD I WANT MY BIKE BACK

  10. #30
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    Studies by the AHA have also found that most people don't do compressions correctly (incorrect hand placement mostly), including a large portion of health professionals. As far as broken ribs go, better a few broken ribs than dead. "Life over limb" and all.

    Firemedic... yes, the acidosis will kill you, but oxygenation can't be minimized. Both are as equally important in resuscitation as in walking around enjoying life. You can't have one without the other. I've taken care of people who were "successfully" coded with an initial pH in the mid to hi 7.2 range. Yea, they're alive but they're not right in the head and never will be because of an anoxic injury.

    An important point to remember as well in the ABCs is to check for an airway obstruction. Whether you're doing compressions alone or compressions with breaths, no gas will be exchanged if there is something blocking the airway, most commonly the tongue or teeth.

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